Any advice on how to best sell something to admin as an early career? So for example, if I wanted to set up a more extensive research or trials program, the challenge is that I will always be perceived as an early career person who lacks experience, especially as I trained in the same institute. How could you navigate situations like this? Sure, Nadia. So if you are looking for a position, if you're trying to go to admin, so I had to go to my admin to convince them for a women heart program. And the question they wanted is, they want numbers. They wanna see how you're gonna add, what are you gonna bring to the table? Patient visits do not bring as much to the hospital. Is it gonna be testing? So you have to run your numbers and see what is it that you're bringing to their table that they don't already have. That's how it goes with the clinical practice. For research, especially if you are new, if you happen in that program as a fellow and now you're gonna be viewed as an early career, I would think mentorship is something that's gonna be very important. You have to find somebody who can help you navigate that early on, and then you can just fly on your own. And for women interventional cardiologists, it's almost like a blanket. There's not one mentor who can answer all your questions. There are different patches. There's a mentor who's gonna help you with research. There's gonna be another mentor who can help you with clinical, high-risk procedures, another mentor who can help you with work-life balance. So you have to look for those people where you train or where you work and find those colleagues to help you navigate through the system. Sheila, any insights from your practice? Do you do research? Have you had to convince administrators to support any particular programs or interests? Yeah, so twofold. Definitely I've negotiated for a certain device. I'm still working on it to get IMR testing in our lab, but we're stuck at the corporate level. So, I mean, you know, so, but that's one thing. But I completely agree with Nishna regarding what admin wants to hear. So I've leaned on the ACC Leadership Academy. I was fortunate enough to have the insight that I applied right when I graduated from interventional fellowship and joined my father's practice. And then I kind of sandwiched that to knowing I wanted to build this woman's heart program in the health system. That gave me a lot of leadership training because I think when you're talking to administration, you have to learn negotiation skills. You have to understand exactly what Nishna was saying. They're interested in the money. The numbers are the money, right? And they want to know how it's going to filter in. So research is difficult. I've had now at Jersey Shore, there's definitely a stronger platform for research. They're enrolling in clinical trials and then Hackensack Major has that too. But I haven't pursued any major research outside of the avenues that I built as a fellow for now, because I've still been focusing on building my woman's heart program. And that's kind of been my baby. I'm focusing on one thing at a time. But the other thing is, you know, when you want part of being that woman's heart program is getting the right technology to test women. And so working with industry, as well as myself, as well as national colleagues to build arguments, right? To build a protocol structure so they can understand how it's the same reimbursement as FFR, for instance, and that we can do it at all of the locations without bypass. And this is something that can trickle up. And then you have to be patient and wait, right? And you have to learn who to follow up with and who's going to advocate for you in the room. So identifying who your advocates are, because those are the people in the room when you're not in the room are also going to be really helpful. I think when it comes to launching a research program, getting somebody who is, I think when you present to your cheat, like when you present to the cardiology committee, I had to present for the woman's heart program. That's really important. Your pitch to them, my pitch for the woman's heart program was, we're all taking care of women. Let's just centralize it. And now it's marketed as something that's competitive. And that was a much better sell than, hi, I'm Sheila Asani. I'm going to start my own woman's heart program. So I think that recognizing that there might be other physicians that want research too, and they want a platform. So learning who to collaborate with, getting in the room with the right people, which is obviously always going to involve the chief of cardiology and getting them to buy in, the more higher level physicians that buy into what you want to do, the easier it is to get that message across to a higher stakeholder level. Great advice. Regina, any tips on that question? It's a great question. Yeah. No, not really. I mean, I agree with everyone, just in terms of knowing who your advocates are. We don't do research here as much, but certainly negotiating or trying to get a new device or even like updated machines and stuff, it's a struggle. And just kind of knowing who to talk to and the more people that can buy into it, I think definitely will help on a corporate level, so. So I think there's a couple of ways to build your research niches. One, first, you have to be busy very clinically. If you're a busy clinical operator, then trials will come to you because you're doing a lot of cases and that's what trial folks want, right? They want you to enroll. So build a very busy clinical practice. That's what I tell all early carriers. And then those trials will come to you through industry or people, if you let them know what your interests are. The second good way is to enroll in one of your senior partners' trial. One of your senior partners is already a PI on a study and then you go approach them and say, hey, I'm doing a lot of these cases. I'm gonna help enroll. And the more you enroll, then people will buy into the fact that you are able to do this for another trial. So the next time a trial comes around or you bring a trial, people around you will be supportive because you've already enrolled in their trials. The third big way is to have your own protocol and approach industry. If your idea is good, they will fund you or you'll have various other sources like AHA or other sources where you can apply for research funding, especially if you're in a university, there's a lot of other things that, opportunities keep coming up. So those are the three different ways you can actually become a good researcher. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I think this is a really good question and it has, I think there's more implications even than just for research. I mean, I'm at an institution that's extremely supportive of research. So it's not really a hard sell for me to try to start a research agenda, I guess you could say. But the one thing, the bigger question I think is, how do you bring other individuals around to your way of, your vision of what you want to achieve or what your goals are? And I would say that this is not something that's unique to early career. This is something that I feel like we will continue to face. And sometimes it may not even be because you are early career that this, it may or may not be that somebody has told you no, it could be that it could be a no across the board. So one thing that I have found to be helpful is to like actually mindfully try to put myself in the shoes of the other person, whoever you're having this negotiation with and try to understand, what are the reasons why they aren't coming around to your way of seeing things and try to negotiate some of those things. If it's a money issue, I mean, sometimes you can try to get some information about the clinical trials and show that they may actually be profitable for the institution for them to enroll some of your patients in these trials. So if it may be a money issue, it could be, you can always make the suggestion that this is gonna actually help the reputation of the institution overall, if it's seen as a research type program. So there's just different ways you can kind of go about it. And I would be happy to talk about that a little bit more offline to the individual that asked that question, because I feel like I can maybe give some additional tips. The other things I just wanted to quickly mention, there's a couple of books on negotiation that I found helpful. One is getting to yes and the other one is ask for it. And I can put those in the chat. I think that this is not just about research or trying to get to have somebody see your way of thinking, but just in general, how to navigate through any kind of a decision point where you really are trying to achieve a goal and perhaps the other person or parties or institution doesn't necessarily have the same way of thinking. So that's the other thing I was gonna say about that. I'll put those books in the chat.

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