In the interest of time, I'm just going to move on to the next question, if that's okay. So we'd like to discuss how you identify opportunities for career development and leadership in your career path, regardless of what kind of environment you're in. So I kind of touched on that just now. So how did you, or how are you currently identifying those leadership opportunities and career development opportunities where you are? Howie, do you want to? Yeah, I think that one of the things that's very helpful when you're early in your career to identify who is that friendly mentor that is going to help you excel. And everybody's going to have their own agenda. So I'm sure they have their own agenda when they're helping you, and you can be very honest with yourself. But for me, it helped to have a supportive mentor when I was starting. The other thing is to always learn new things and bring them to the table. As you said, sometimes you're like, I had to make it somebody else's idea. And it's okay if you have to do that early on until you establish and have your feet on the ground. And then it can be, no, it is my idea, I want to bring this in, but it takes a little bit of work. You can't start like that. And it's okay if you have to have that mentor be part of that. So just as an example, for the pediatric population, I started the PDA stenting program. And I started it with John Moore, and I went to him and I said, I want to start this. And he said, okay, I'm going to support you. And actually, I went to Egypt and invited somebody from Malaysia who did the PDA stents and learned how to do it and came back and started doing it. And it became my own baby. And now I can work on it and develop it. But I did need that. I did need that support. Because when you're younger, and particularly when you're female, it is known that you do need some support. It doesn't have to be a male, it can be a female. But somebody who is a little bit more advanced in their career, they want you to progress. You feel that honesty in that, and you latch on to that. And if what they want from it is to be acknowledged and to be on your papers and all of that, then definitely do that. And then they'll help you climb the ladder, and they'll be proud of you. I think that helps when you're starting. When you get to Megan's stage, you got this confidence, you can start something by yourself, and that's okay. But again, it's the stage in your life where you're at, acknowledge that and work with it. The other thing about having a more senior partner to guide you a little bit when you first start is that, depending on the institution where you are, navigating through the system of starting a new program is not easy to do as somebody coming out of training. So having someone to kind of guide you through that process a little bit that has been through it before, knows the people, knows the institution a little bit better. So that's a good point you made. Well, I think what you touch on, both of you are touching on the key factor to me, at least, and if anyone disagrees, feel free to chime, but to me is figuring out what you love to do, figuring out what it is you want to do, and then having a conversation with your practice, your partners, your leadership, your institution, to see if they're on the same page. Because what I've heard over and over and over again from my colleagues is that they put in all this time and effort, they did all of this work, and it just does not, no one cares. No one seems to care. No one seems to support it. And it turns out it just wasn't something that they were looking to do at the time, no matter how phenomenal the program was. And so they did not get that support. And they were just feeling used and overworked and tired, and what Allison said, not valued. And what I got from that was that you have to have that conversation up front. This is what I'd like to do. Do you see my goals fitting in with the larger goals of the practice and the institution? If they do not align, and if it's something you really want to do, time to move on. Because no matter how much you show that this is what a great job you did, it doesn't change the minds as quickly, if it wasn't something that they were interested in doing in the first place. And if it aligns, then all of a sudden you'll get that support, you'll get that moving forward. But those are my thoughts. Megan? I'm looking at Nadia, and I want to hear from her. You knew I was going to pick on you, I could tell. I know you've got great ideas on the panel. I'm not supposed to be part of the panel, but since you called me out, I completely agree with everything you guys have said, and you have said it so eloquently. One of the things that I do that's a little bit different is I have a, actually Benita's one of the few others that does this, has a basic science research lab. And so I know when I was first starting out, same thing, I was told that's not possible, that can't be done. And so trying to make sure that when I found a position that it was going to be someplace that would support both my research and my clinical passion was really important to me. And I think it's important to make sure that as your goals change, that you continue to have this conversation because you may achieve your goals, but then you've got to go to the next step and see what's my next goal, and is it still in alignment? So I think certainly touching base and making sure that those are still both on track at various points are really important, but I'm learning a lot from what you guys are saying, so I'm going to be quiet now. Rania, do you have anything you want to add to that question? I mean, I think it's important to remember that just if something isn't moving smoothly, it may not necessarily be you, like it could very well be the people that are around you. I think a lot of us have had the experience where people are somewhat threatened by what you're doing, and so their response is it impacts you, but it's really their problem. And at some point, you've got to decide, can I keep moving along? They can deal with their own insecurities, and I'm just going to do the right thing for patients and take care of them, or is this sort of an impasse? And I think sometimes it's going to be an impasse, and you need to find a different place to be. But I think in many situations, if you are sort of proven, you continue to prove yourself, you work hard, you're just doing your thing, hopefully people will see that and learn to support you too. Yeah. Going back to the question of how do you identify career opportunities, Athena Pappas taught me this a while ago, and this really helped me actually when I was first starting out, particularly because I stayed at my own institution. But what Rania had touched on earlier, you want to figure out what it is you bring to the group that's a little different. What is your contribution to the group? And Athena had mentioned, when you feel stuck in your practice, in your institution, that's where the societies can come into play. And she sort of started moving towards ACC, worked up that whole ladder for us, we've got Sky, lots of great opportunities. And she just reached out to different organizations to say, how can I help? How can I work on something that interests me on a committee or anything? And she began to find the way she describes, and honestly, I'm going to stop using her as an example, because I ended up doing the same thing, find so much joy out of working with the other organization and sort of going up that way, that I learned so much, I started getting a new skill set, or a couple of new skill sets this way. And the next thing I know, I'm bringing it back to the lab. And somehow I transformed from, oh, she was just my fellow, I taught her everything you know, to, wait, where did you learn this? In your living room? I didn't teach you this. And all of a sudden, I was a colleague, and not just the former fellow that I trained. And I did find a lot of satisfaction in that way. So when you feel stuck in one place, there are opportunities through Sky, through ACC, through these different organizations, their career development opportunities, just participating on a committee and talking through your ideas with a group of like-minded people, you know. So that can give you some joy back in your career that may then somehow translate back and loop back to your own practice and institution. Let me just say something. I think that Sky Wynn has sort of done that a little bit to me because, you know, like-minded other female interventionalists and just kind of learning from their experiences and some of the stuff that they've addressed or had to address is, you know, one way to find a community if you don't feel like in your own institution, you have a community right away. Yeah. And it depends on where you are in your career, too. I think, you know, one of my partners is a former Sky president, and he has been encouraging me since the day I started working with the practice to get involved with Sky. You know, I had two young kids, and I was working, you know, 60, 70 hours a week at times, not always, but and I was like, I don't have time for that. And now my kids are a little bit older. And he was right. I mean, I find a lot of gratification in participating in the Sky committees. And these are things that may evolve as you go through your career. You know, it doesn't have to be everything needs to happen all at the same time. And, you know, you get out of fellowship or you start your first job, and I've got to do all this at the same time. This is kind of an evolution of how your career might go. And it does give you a little bit of gratification outside of work, a different type of gratification. So I encourage people to definitely get involved when you have time and when you can fit it in your schedule.

career development

leadership opportunities

supportive mentor

learning new skills

aligning personal goals